windows mail ui consistency rest vista

Better get WM the File Explorer toolbars at least, if not a big navigation bar too like WMP, Callendar, etc. do

Suggestion made :o)
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
--- Original message follows --- "Adahn" wrote in message

Better get WM the File Explorer toolbars at least, if not a big navigation bar too like WMP, Callendar, etc. do

I don't want mail looking like Windows Media Player 11 or Photo Gallery or Calendar. Its just not the right application for that layout and significance would not be there. I notice you just suggested consistency, but could you give me additional reasons why this layout would be advantageous to Windows Mail, how it would provide better navigation or make the Windows Mail experience better for the end user? -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Adahn" wrote in message

Better get WM the File Explorer toolbars at least, if not a big navigation bar too like WMP, Callendar, etc. do

Buenas noches: *Andre Da Costa [Extended64]* escribió:

I don't want mail looking like Windows Media Player 11 or Photo Gallery or Calendar. Its just not the right application for that layout and significance would not be there. I notice you just suggested consistency, but could you give me additional reasons why this layout would be advantageous to Windows Mail, how it would provide better navigation or make the Windows Mail experience better for the end user?

At least I'd love buttons for back and forth, so that I can switch to another folder and use the back button to return to the previous one. Don't know if such are in Calendar, though. ;-)
Saludos Roland -- Probleme mit OE? Hier gibt es die Lösungen: <http://oe-faq.de>!
"Die Wahrheit ist wie ein Bauernmädchen. Am schönsten ist sie ungeschminkt." (O. Kokoschka)

I think it would be quite cool actually :o)
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
--- Original message follows --- "Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

I don't want mail looking like Windows Media Player 11 or Photo Gallery or Calendar. Its just not the right application for that layout and significance would not be there. I notice you just suggested consistency, but could you give me additional reasons why this layout would be advantageous to Windows Mail, how it would provide better navigation or make the Windows Mail experience better for the end user? -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Adahn" wrote in message Better get WM the File Explorer toolbars at least, if not a big navigation bar too like WMP, Callendar, etc. do

It would be quite cool, but what would be the reason behind quite cool, what productive functionality is it providing? Developers don't create these things at the snap of a finger. It takes a good amount of thought process, engineering and testing before you can at least bring real code into play. At least apply some of that thought process to your suggestion before you hand it to them. -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote in message

I think it would be quite cool actually :o)
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
--- Original message follows --- "Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message I don't want mail looking like Windows Media Player 11 or Photo Gallery or Calendar. Its just not the right application for that layout and significance would not be there. I notice you just suggested consistency, but could you give me additional reasons why this layout would be advantageous to Windows Mail, how it would provide better navigation or make the Windows Mail experience better for the end user? -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Adahn" wrote in message Better get WM the File Explorer toolbars at least, if not a big navigation bar too like WMP, Callendar, etc. do

No they are not, but they are in Windows Media Player. For persons who have multiple inboxes, subscribe to numerous newsgroups, WMPs navigation still would not functional in Windows Mail. -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Roland Bierlein" wrote in message

Buenas noches: *Andre Da Costa [Extended64]* escribió:
I don't want mail looking like Windows Media Player 11 or Photo Gallery or Calendar. Its just not the right application for that layout and significance would not be there. I notice you just suggested consistency, but could you give me additional reasons why this layout would be advantageous to Windows Mail, how it would provide better navigation or make the Windows Mail experience better for the end user?
At least I'd love buttons for back and forth, so that I can switch to another folder and use the back button to return to the previous one. Don't know if such are in Calendar, though. ;-)
Saludos Roland -- Probleme mit OE? Hier gibt es die Lösungen: <http://oe-faq.de>!
"Die Wahrheit ist wie ein Bauernmädchen. Am schönsten ist sie ungeschminkt." (O. Kokoschka)

It would be quite cool, but what would be the reason behind quite cool, what productive functionality is it providing?

Can anyone give a satisfactory answer to that regarding ANY major new UI feature Vista has brought so far ? :)

Developers don't create these things at the snap of a finger.

They do at the thud of an Apple falling to the ground though.

It takes a good amount of thought process,

which is usually filled with voices chanting Mac OS ~ Mac OS ~ Make an OS like MAC OS!

engineering and testing before you can at least bring real code into play.

after scraping at least 50% of the initial design goals.

At least apply some of that thought process to your suggestion before you hand it to them.

We would love to, if it did not feel futile after all too many put-offs containing phrases like "feature complete" and "final, expected behavior."
These succinct snips are just meant to be heads-ups for pointing that thought process of theirs in the general direction.. no way are we going to the effort of drawing elaborate drafts if they won't be taken into much consideration.
but coming to the issue at hand, surely at least the toolbars in Windows Mail could do with a makeover like those in Windows Explorer? along with a breadcrumb Address Bar.

Buenos días: *Adahn* escribió:

It would be quite cool, but what would be the reason behind quite cool, what productive functionality is it providing?
Can anyone give a satisfactory answer to that regarding ANY major new UI feature Vista has brought so far ? :)

Sure: they provided /negative/ productive functionality *a lot*. <eg&d>
Saludos Roland -- Probleme mit OE? Hier gibt es die Lösungen: <http://oe-faq.de>!
"Sei nicht der erste, Neues zu erfassen, der letzte nicht, das Alte geh'n zu lassen." (A. Pope)

Breadcrumb toolbar? You are just saying things that you think will look good but you are not providing any reasoning behind it. -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Adahn" wrote in message

It would be quite cool, but what would be the reason behind quite cool, what productive functionality is it providing?
Can anyone give a satisfactory answer to that regarding ANY major new UI feature Vista has brought so far ? :)
Developers don't create these things at the snap of a finger.
They do at the thud of an Apple falling to the ground though.
It takes a good amount of thought process,
which is usually filled with voices chanting Mac OS ~ Mac OS ~ Make an OS like MAC OS!
engineering and testing before you can at least bring real code into play.
after scraping at least 50% of the initial design goals.
At least apply some of that thought process to your suggestion before you hand it to them.
We would love to, if it did not feel futile after all too many put-offs containing phrases like "feature complete" and "final, expected behavior."
These succinct snips are just meant to be heads-ups for pointing that thought process of theirs in the general direction.. no way are we going to the effort of drawing elaborate drafts if they won't be taken into much consideration.
but coming to the issue at hand, surely at least the toolbars in Windows Mail could do with a makeover like those in Windows Explorer? along with a breadcrumb Address Bar.

Breadcrumb toolbar?

So that, assuming they take the suggestion of letting us organize our NNTP subscriptions the way we want to, we might be seeing "Newsgroups » Microsoft » Vista » Mail" up there in the address bar right now, for example.
I actually have a backlog of email from 1999 in Outlook Express files, categorized and subcategorized in numerous virtual folders.
If a MEDIA PLAYER, of all things, can have a file-system-like address bar to help navigate your music collection, then by the nine hells so can an email application.

and no,

Breadcrumb toolbar?
So that, assuming they take the suggestion of letting us organize our NNTP subscriptions the way we want to, we might be seeing "Newsgroups » Microsoft » Vista » Mail" up there in the address bar right now, for example.

the suggestion is not tied to newsgroups accounts whatsoever :p just an example

and no,

Breadcrumb toolbar?
So that, assuming they take the suggestion of letting us organize our NNTP subscriptions the way we want to, we might be seeing "Newsgroups » Microsoft » Vista » Mail" up there in the address bar right now, for example.

the suggestion is not tied to newsgroups accounts whatsoever :p just an example

You need to sort Windows Mail out Adahn, it keeps double posting ;o)
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
--- Original message follows --- "Adahn" wrote in message

and no,
Breadcrumb toolbar?
So that, assuming they take the suggestion of letting us organize our NNTP subscriptions the way we want to, we might be seeing "Newsgroups » Microsoft » Vista » Mail" up there in the address bar right now, for example.
the suggestion is not tied to newsgroups accounts whatsoever :p just an example

It's a bug!! I think, if you have set it to autosend on compose and you look for new messages while it's doing that there'll be two copies on the way out -_-"
They should put up some server-side filtering already for obvious stuff like this
"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote in message

You need to sort Windows Mail out Adahn, it keeps double posting ;o)

Maybe its because you are still on dead code and need to move from 5270 to 5308. -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Adahn" wrote in message

It's a bug!! I think, if you have set it to autosend on compose and you look for new messages while it's doing that there'll be two copies on the way out -_-"
They should put up some server-side filtering already for obvious stuff like this
"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote in message You need to sort Windows Mail out Adahn, it keeps double posting ;o)

Huh, Media Player 11 has an address bar? The last time I checked, its using tabs, and list with links to folders called libraries with links to different ways to find and filter music, such as Artiste, Album, Year, Genre. I don't see any Bread crumb address bar in Media Player, but there is a Search box which works similarly to Windows Mail's Word Wheel. :) -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Adahn" wrote in message

Breadcrumb toolbar?
So that, assuming they take the suggestion of letting us organize our NNTP subscriptions the way we want to, we might be seeing "Newsgroups » Microsoft » Vista » Mail" up there in the address bar right now, for example.
I actually have a backlog of email from 1999 in Outlook Express files, categorized and subcategorized in numerous virtual folders.
If a MEDIA PLAYER, of all things, can have a file-system-like address bar to help navigate your music collection, then by the nine hells so can an email application.

Huh, Media Player 11 has an address bar? The last time I checked, its using tabs, and list with links to folders called libraries with links to different ways to find and filter music, such as Artiste, Album, Year, Genre. I don't see any Bread crumb address bar in Media Player, but there is a Search box which works similarly to Windows Mail's Word Wheel. :)

don't know which build you last checked it on, but on 5270 you can see something like "Music » My Library » Songs" in the corner, and if that's not called breadcrumb navigation I'm not gonna go digging for whatever cool term MS has cooked up this time
That's just one inconsistent UI element. Whatever you say man, no one will deny that the current Windows Mail looks out of place in Vista, unless they're trying to cover up the design team's half-hearted laziness.

Maybe its because you are still on dead code and need to move from 5270 to 5308.

Nothing worth downloading it if one goes by the reviews so far, and considering that I'm using 5270 as my primary OS I'd rather just wait for the public build due in April before pulling back out to XP for good until getting a MacIntel as my next machine :)

You can probably set up an interface in WIndows itself to access the messages in the way you wish. The messages are now stored as individual files in directories that match the folder names, so you should be able to sort the messages outside of WinMail that way.
steve
"Adahn" wrote in message

Huh, Media Player 11 has an address bar? The last time I checked, its using tabs, and list with links to folders called libraries with links to different ways to find and filter music, such as Artiste, Album, Year, Genre. I don't see any Bread crumb address bar in Media Player, but there is a Search box which works similarly to Windows Mail's Word Wheel. :)
don't know which build you last checked it on, but on 5270 you can see something like "Music » My Library » Songs" in the corner, and if that's not called breadcrumb navigation I'm not gonna go digging for whatever cool term MS has cooked up this time
That's just one inconsistent UI element. Whatever you say man, no one will deny that the current Windows Mail looks out of place in Vista, unless they're trying to cover up the design team's half-hearted laziness.

"Nothing worth downloading it if one goes by the reviews so far, and considering that I'm using 5270 as my primary OS I'd rather just wait for the public build due in April before pulling back out to XP for good until getting a MacIntel as my next machine :) "
LOL!
By the way, I agree with your view... with Vista's *inconsistent* UI going the way it is right now, OSXI is going to improve leaps and bounds from now. I'm sure Apple has finished polishing their new, elegant UI by now, due this fall... when Vista is released...
....and it'll be running on Intel...
-- Nicholas...
"Overclock Your Life, Then The World"

But things is we want a consistent UI across ALL Vista consumer products:
Windows Mail Windows Calendar Windows Contacts Windows Photo Gallery Windows Media Player Windows Movie Maker
I think some guys here misunderstand what we mean by consistent and say "oh so you want every button and bar to be the same?" No that's not our point. Our point is to have the UI LAYOUTS to be the same.
Windows Mail should scrap the old OE-style toolbar buttons on the top and go for the consistent ones, that is, big blue bottons on the bottom of the UI like in WMP, Windows Contacts,, etc.... you know... the big blue bottons will be things like "Reply" "New Mail", etc
-- Nicholas...
"Overclock Your Life, Then The World" "Steve Cochran" wrote in message

You can probably set up an interface in WIndows itself to access the messages in the way you wish. The messages are now stored as individual files in directories that match the folder names, so you should be able to sort the messages outside of WinMail that way.
steve
"Adahn" wrote in message Huh, Media Player 11 has an address bar? The last time I checked, its using tabs, and list with links to folders called libraries with links to different ways to find and filter music, such as Artiste, Album, Year, Genre. I don't see any Bread crumb address bar in Media Player, but there is a Search box which works similarly to Windows Mail's Word Wheel. :)
don't know which build you last checked it on, but on 5270 you can see something like "Music » My Library » Songs" in the corner, and if that's not called breadcrumb navigation I'm not gonna go digging for whatever cool term MS has cooked up this time
That's just one inconsistent UI element. Whatever you say man, no one will deny that the current Windows Mail looks out of place in Vista, unless they're trying to cover up the design team's half-hearted laziness.

Nah! I like it just the way it is, I wouldn't mind they use the three pane view as the default layout. -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
<Nicholas> wrote in message

But things is we want a consistent UI across ALL Vista consumer products:
Windows Mail Windows Calendar Windows Contacts Windows Photo Gallery Windows Media Player Windows Movie Maker
I think some guys here misunderstand what we mean by consistent and say "oh so you want every button and bar to be the same?" No that's not our point. Our point is to have the UI LAYOUTS to be the same.
Windows Mail should scrap the old OE-style toolbar buttons on the top and go for the consistent ones, that is, big blue bottons on the bottom of the UI like in WMP, Windows Contacts,, etc.... you know... the big blue bottons will be things like "Reply" "New Mail", etc
-- Nicholas...
"Overclock Your Life, Then The World" "Steve Cochran" wrote in message You can probably set up an interface in WIndows itself to access the messages in the way you wish. The messages are now stored as individual files in directories that match the folder names, so you should be able to sort the messages outside of WinMail that way.
steve
"Adahn" wrote in message Huh, Media Player 11 has an address bar? The last time I checked, its using tabs, and list with links to folders called libraries with links to different ways to find and filter music, such as Artiste, Album, Year, Genre. I don't see any Bread crumb address bar in Media Player, but there is a Search box which works similarly to Windows Mail's Word Wheel. :)
don't know which build you last checked it on, but on 5270 you can see something like "Music » My Library » Songs" in the corner, and if that's not called breadcrumb navigation I'm not gonna go digging for whatever cool term MS has cooked up this time
That's just one inconsistent UI element. Whatever you say man, no one will deny that the current Windows Mail looks out of place in Vista, unless they're trying to cover up the design team's half-hearted laziness.

<Nicholas> wrote in message news:ecVSLJZRGHA.4740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl

"Nothing worth downloading it if one goes by the reviews so far, and considering that I'm using 5270 as my primary OS I'd rather just wait for the public build due in April before pulling back out to XP for good until getting a MacIntel as my next machine :) "
LOL!
By the way, I agree with your view... with Vista's *inconsistent* UI going the way it is right now, OSXI is going to improve leaps and bounds from now. I'm sure Apple has finished polishing their new, elegant UI by now, due this fall... when Vista is released...
...and it'll be running on Intel...

I find Windows Mail in 5308 a little better at remembering toolbar customizations. And the dialup support is greatly improved.
-- Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE Please respond in Newsgroup. Do not send email http://www.fjsmjs.com Protect your PC http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

windows live mail is three pane dault, so should windows mail
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote:

Nah! I like it just the way it is, I wouldn't mind they use the three pane view as the default layout. -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
Nicholas> wrote in message But things is we want a consistent UI across ALL Vista consumer products:
Windows Mail Windows Calendar Windows Contacts Windows Photo Gallery Windows Media Player Windows Movie Maker
I think some guys here misunderstand what we mean by consistent and say "oh so you want every button and bar to be the same?" No that's not our point. Our point is to have the UI LAYOUTS to be the same.
Windows Mail should scrap the old OE-style toolbar buttons on the top and go for the consistent ones, that is, big blue bottons on the bottom of the UI like in WMP, Windows Contacts,, etc.... you know... the big blue bottons will be things like "Reply" "New Mail", etc
-- Nicholas...
"Overclock Your Life, Then The World" "Steve Cochran" wrote in message You can probably set up an interface in WIndows itself to access the messages in the way you wish. The messages are now stored as individual files in directories that match the folder names, so you should be able to sort the messages outside of WinMail that way.
steve
"Adahn" wrote in message Huh, Media Player 11 has an address bar? The last time I checked, its using tabs, and list with links to folders called libraries with links to different ways to find and filter music, such as Artiste, Album, Year, Genre. I don't see any Bread crumb address bar in Media Player, but there is a Search box which works similarly to Windows Mail's Word Wheel. :)
don't know which build you last checked it on, but on 5270 you can see something like "Music » My Library » Songs" in the corner, and if that's not called breadcrumb navigation I'm not gonna go digging for whatever cool term MS has cooked up this time
That's just one inconsistent UI element. Whatever you say man, no one will deny that the current Windows Mail looks out of place in Vista, unless they're trying to cover up the design team's half-hearted laziness.

"Eric" wrote in message news:AC6E1D94-DD8D-4CC0-AE48-CC59E5A8CFC6@microsoft.com

windows live mail is three pane dault, so should windows mail

I believe it is, but I can't swear I didn't change it to that.
-- Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM Please respond in Newsgroup. Do not send email http://www.fjsmjs.com Protect your PC http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

"Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE" wrote in message

windows live mail is three pane dault, so should windows mail
I believe it is, but I can't swear I didn't change it to that.

You changed it Frank. Just as I did when I first set it up to a 3 pane view. -- Jim